Hi
I am new to goats and I have not yet gotten some, but I am planning on it in march. I have a few questions about babies. I was planning on getting two wethers that do not need to be bottle fed (8 weeks old right?) and raising them with my brother to be pack goat 4-H projects. I have heard that bottle feeding is better because it gets the goat used to you and later is easier to train. Is this true? Also I have no idea about bottle feeding and at what age they can be off it. I also don't know how many times a day for how long they need to be bottle fed? I really don't want to bottle feed but if goats have to be past 8 weeks before they can eat pellets and hay alone then I guess i will have to. My plan is to try to get a young enough goat that can be worked with to pack but also young enough to be off bottle feeding. Any help is very appreciated.
P.S- I'm 15 and my brother is 12 (very new to goats for 4-H)

Hi there- I'm pretty new myself to packgoats but from what I,ve learned, there are a couple things I could tell you-
1.you don't really need bottle fed to have extremely friendly and trainable goats. Mine were all raised by their moms and couldn't be friendlier. I got them at 4 and 5 months, weaned and just neutered. Leave the infant care to the experts-their moms.
2.there are three health issues to try to avoid, and here's how:
-avoid future urinary problems by not getting them neutered untill they are as old as possible- 4 to 6 months
-try to find a breeder who has a CL and CAE free herd. You can research what those things are and you will see why.
That's all I can think of for now- good luck!

Ali

Hi, Like Ali, I am new to owning goats too. There is a LOT to learn, but by joining this Forum you are already off to a great start. This Forum is invaluable when it comes to trying to figure out what you are supposed to do when something is wrong with your new babies (especially in the middle of the evening, that is when everything always seems to go wrong). I too recently bottle fed 4 goats. I found it was easiest doing 2 at a time. Two in the barn, two feeding, then switch. I was told to take mine off of the bottle when they reached about 30 lbs. To be honest, I kept them on past that weight. My boys reached almost 40 lbs before my goat weight tape came in from Hoegger Goat Supply. I used whole cows milk, as I heard that the milk replacer is too rich for young baby bellies. I have found that bottle feeding was tough at first, but I really enjoyed and looked forward to every feeding. It goes by quick. Good luck to you.

10 weeks is pretty mucn minimum but longer is better. Even 5=6 months.They need the alance diet milk gives them as well as the calories.
The best milk replacer is a combination of 1 gallon of whole milk, one cup of buttermilk and a can of evaporated milk. Way cheaper and better than powdered replacer.

Thanks for the info but I really need to know what age goats can be weaned from their mother and if I do bottle feed how many times a day I have to do it: You see I'm kinda in a knot because I need to have 2 wethers worked with and able to be led and understand voice commands by fair time in august. The guy that I have talked to about going and looking at his goats said they won't be born untill March sometime. And I want to stay away from bottle feeding because i really don't have time to bottle feed because I have school untill June. So my mom would have to take over the feeding, part of the day. And If goats need 10 weeks-5 months with their mother then I would have 1 month of time left to work with one if I bought weaned babies.

Just a thought- how close is the breeder you are getting your goats from? If the breeder is willing, and you can get there, you could start visiting the babies in March or April after they are born, and maybe pick out two that seem friendly, outgoing, and cooperative and see if the breeder could leave them with their moms for three or four months but allow you to come over and handle them, feed them treats, take them on little walks with their moms ect. maybe once or twice a week. Then you could take them home when it's time for them to be weaned (I defer to those who know more than me on when that should be) They will cry their heads off for a day or so, but they will remember you being with them and their mom, and will transfer to you as their "babysitter" after a couple of days. I bet that way you could get them walking with you on leash in a month, and maybe do some simple commands because they will already know that you are their friend and will give them treats.

Oh, I see Caroline recommends at least 10 weeks before weaning at the very least, so I would go with 12 weeks minimum, which is three months.

I would bottle feed those goats. Investing the time early is easier than trying to establish that bond later, and you have a time limit.

You will spend less time than you will taking them off the doe late. Too many variables in leaving them on the doe with them not on your farm. Pick them up after a couple weeks of age and you'll be able to feed them twice a day. We would all like to offer the "perfect" care schedule, but reality includes family, work, school and plenty other commitments. The critters we keep in our lives, goats, dogs, horses, cats, ect., all learn to live with our schedule too, part of the deal.

We have raised serveral on bottle and our newest addition we let milk from Mom naturally. One year later, you wouldn't tell much of a difference, but at a couple of months of age, the bottle-fed kids were highly bonded and seeking human attention, whereas the naturally fed kid would still prefer to huddle with Mom and more slowly "warm-up" to new people. I'm sure there is a bit of individual personality coming through, but ... since being weaned and spending the last 6 months being fed predominately by humans now, she's just about on par with the bottle raised kids.

Now, that said ... the "primary" caregiver (meaning the one who has been trudging through 30" of snow to feed and water them the past couple of days) is my 11 year old daughter. She worked out a schedule of bottlefeeding her first goats that was compatible with school... this was for a short period of time three times a day, before school, right after school, and then in the evening before bedtime. I think this lasted up until about 4-6 weeks of age, by which time they were at twice daily feedings until about 4 months old ... and the twice daily maintenance continues to this day with freshening of water, supplying hay, etc.

So, point being, you'll probably want to commit to twice daily time with the goats anyway ... and that can probably be worked out with your school schedule and still be able to continue bottle feeding for some time if that is what you'd like to do.

Hello,

another thought...

is it an option for you and your brother to buy an older goat - say 1 year or so?

I don't know what plans you have for August, what tasks the goats are supposed to do by then but I have my doubts that a 4-5 month old kid can do them. Bottle-raised goat kids respond to humans and training well but they are still KIDS - physically and mentally - with a short attention span and a lot of things to do and learn in live about being a goat.

Thank you all soo much for the info! You all who said I should bottle feed as a comitment to having farm animals are probably right. So I think I will go ahead and buy the two kids at two weeks old (I had never thought of getting them at two weeks or maybe even 3!) So that way I can be able to train them and get them used to me and my brother and also I forgot to mention I just love the babies!!! They're so adorable! I also like the idea of getting a 2-3 week old so I can feed it just twice a day. One of you mentioned that going over to the breeders house would be good, but unfortunately I am planning to buy from someone who lives about 40-50 minutes away so that is not an option. And getting a 1 year old goat I'm afraid would be too old, I do not have to pack the first year, but just get them to understand leading and voice commands, stop, go, no, good. Basically just manners, which I'm sure will be very fun and I'm looking forward to it. Also I was wondering if any of you have pictures of goats that are approximately 5 months old. I would like to see how big mine will be when fair time comes along. So if u can please post some pics!
Thanks again- Hannah

Here's a pic of my meat goat packing wethers at 4 and 5 months. The guy in the wheelbarrow is 5 months old. They are still little babies at this age, maybe 50 lbs. They were dam raised, but picked out of the herd of meat goats by the rancher to be pets because they were particularly friendly, and weaned weeks before I got them. They immediately walked with me without leashes on, and quickly learned to come to me when I made a clicking noise. In about an hour I taught them to jump up on a half barrel on command. nothing fancy. Like someone already said, they were like puppies, very short attention span, so I started with "tricks" that were things they already wanted to do.

Hannah,

whoa!

At 2-3 weeks of age they need at least (!) 3-4 feedings per day!!!! If you feed them twice a day that young you will stunt their growth and basically let them starve while being alive.

You can switch to twice a day at age 3 months or later.

We fed kids older than three weeks twice a day for over 10 years with no problems. At three months they were weaned and weighed around 50 lbs. Make sure to have free choice grain and alfalfa even though they will only nibble bits here and there.

Back when I got started, I got most of my advice from Rex and Terri, and have used a similar program for 13 years and a couple hundred kids. Two bottles a day after two weeks, free choice alfalfa, free choice grain until it needs to be rationed, and all they can eat fresh green pasture. They can't consume more, it's all they can eat. Weaned by three months and some give up on the bottle before then as they're content with the other offerings.

Ali- Your meat goats are very cute! I like how they are playing in the wheelbarrow. Ok, I see all of you wean at different times so I think will keep botlle feeding untill they are eating a little more free choice starter and not wanting the bottle as much. Also when they look like they're getting too big, like a little after 3 months. Thanks guys! Your also more then welcome to send more pics! I love to look at goats pictures, especially baby ones:)

Weaning is a somewhat individual thing with each goat. Some babies need milk more often to thrive, and some need it longer than others, depending on their individual maturity rate. But remember, this is the time when kids are putting calcium into their bones and once adults they will need that calcium for the rest of their lives. So more is better.

Also research shows that kids that are fed more often generally digest their food better and do better. We feed four times a day for the first two seeks, three times for the next 2-3 weeks and then twice a day. Even the older kids, get some milk every day once a day till we dry the does off. No point in wasting it and the doe kids especially need the extra since they lose calcium when giving birth later.

The point is, what you can do and what is optimumum are not always the same thing. Think of weaning as taking off the training wheels a little at atime not a big event that only happens once.

I got my goats at 10 weeks of age. They were not on the bottle at all, but handled by children every day. At ten weeks the mother was just starting to kick them off.

We threw the three of them in the back of the minivan and I rode with them. When we got home it was turning dark. And I let them out of the back before realizing that it was probably not a good idea. They were in a strange area, didn't know anyone, getting dark, scared, and away from mama. A few quick attempts to catch them told me I would soon have them all over the city.

So I dropped down on all fours and started eating grass. Within minutes they joined me and I could put leads on them. I spent the night in the pen with them.

I think the combination of force weening and separation set back their bonding clock. They followed me without a lead thereafter. The only trouble I had was that Curley was afraid to cross the stream on our first hike and laid down under a bank as we walked off.

I went back and got him, and led him across. But never had another problem. At that young age they would start to complain about the distance. I'd make them walk a bit farther before taking a rest. Now they can out walk me.

Now that they are older they will wander a bit farther off the lead, but they stay with me. And hiking in the dark they are right under foot.

Some of the pros out there may wish to try this and see if it is repeatable since it would relieve you of the bottle feeding regimen.

From what people have been telling me here, 10 weeks is too young to be off bottles, they say 3 months! So i guess if it worked for you then that's fine? I know this is randome but what do you have for your goats, collars or halters? How'd the grass taste?

No, it's not fine and you shouldn't aim for the minimum possible. There are many reasons why a goat will kick off their kids at 10 weeks: mastitis, sore teats or simply no more milk because she herself is in a poor state are the most common.

Unfortunately you can't switch a 10 week old goat that knows only to drink from it's mother switch to a bottle (that can already be difficult if they are 2 or 3 weeks old) so you have to make the best out of a bad situation. That it works somehow does not mean that you should do the same if you can do better.

When you look at goat mothers they will let their kids nurse until the kids are 5-7 months (!) old.

I have collars for them. I only use leads in parking lots and crowded situations.

The older goat that I adopted at four years likes to start back on his own if we stop too long. I suspect that's why they gave him away. So I will hold on to him.

Grass is better than worms... but that's another story

I consider myself a pro and would not use such a schedule. Just because I kid can survive on this minimum doesn't mean they are thriving. I advocared such minimums in Practical Goatpacking but as the years have gone by have changed since I could see the difference. After somewhere in the neighborhood of `1,000 goat kids I feel that later is better. All kids aren't the same but at least 12 weeks is minimum aorund here and usually much later. If they go to new homes before that my recommendation is to at leas tgive cow's milk/buttermilk/evap milk replacer till 12 weeks.

I did have one kid weam himself at 6 weeks but that was an exception.

Ok, sorry. Yes I know that most people and the right time is 3 months 12 weeks, i just see that this forum has some people that wean before that, but since my goats will be pets and i will have them for a long, long time i will make sure they are ready to be weaned when they want to be. I'm not a cruel person and i try to find out as much info as possible before i go and buy a new animal, this forum has helped me so much. So thank you. Don't worry my goaties will b fine I love goats and i would not try to hurt them or starve them. But i do wish to have a schedule for goats and bottle feeding. I have found a chart that tells how much they need at what ages and how many times a day, but it is very little of amounts (not sure if it is right, i got it off of some breeder website) then i found one here but it was what one person used for her big big goats. So if anyone has any approximate chart that would be great! I am a visual person so it might help me alot.

There's a saying "the eye of the master fattens the cattle" meaning that with animals you have to make room for individual adjustments and can't rely on schedules only.

Here's my schedule, using either raw cows milk or goat milk:

first week: up to 8 feedings per day; 5 ounces per feeding
2 to 3 weeks: 6 feedings per day, 6,7 to 8,5 ounces per feeding (depending on how much the kid can take)
3-5 weeks: 5 feedings per day, 8,5 to 12 ounces per feeding (increasing towards the 5th week)
5-8 weeks: 4 feedings per day, 13,5 to 17 ounces per feeding
8-16 weeks: 3 feedings per day, 17 ounces per feeding
16 - 20 weeks: 2 feedings per day, 17 ounces per feeding
20-24 weeks: 1 feeding per day, 17 ounces per feeding

I start them on grain at about 4 weeks but don't offer it free choice. Also our pastures are mostly browsing and low energy grass and weeds. I rather give more milk and less grain.

The transition can be fluid. F.e. if I notice that a kid at age 7 weeks is satisfied with 3 feedings and refuses the fourth bottle, I adjust accordingly. Same with a kid that is still hungy and needs more, this I will leave on the "more feeding schedule" a while longer.

One other thing to watch when weaning is the weather. If it gets hot and the kids aren't drinking water real well they should have an extra bottle to keep them hydrated.
Also, kids who are taken away form mom and haven't been bottle trained can learn to drink out of a pan mor easily than converting them to a bottle, just stick their faces in it a few times and they will figure out it's good stuff. They are usually drinking water by two to three weeks anyway.